Boxxer tuning

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Boxxer tuning

Postby atom » Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:31 pm

I just bought an '01 boxxer.

What type of oil should I be running in it? I am 140-145. I am not smooth and like to do drops??

5/15 wt?

The leg with the rebound adjustment is the leg that is supposed to get the heavier oil correct?

Also, what springs should I run?
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Postby groundwalker » Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:47 pm

Intrested in trades for that super 8?
how bout selling the avy alone? i could give you a fox to replace it with....

as far as the boxxer, the rebound leg of course controls the rebound, so you'd want the heavier oil in it. also the oil levels should be slightly different, i forget which one gets more though.

Wait for jamesnobrakes or jm_ to come around and help you, he is the boxxer expert.
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Postby JamesNoBrakes » Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:25 pm

i'd go 20wt rebound, 10 compression, then go from there, if you feel you need more rebond 30 is the max, compression doesn't seem to be ultra-effective, meaning don't expect it to get lots plusher if you use heavier compression oil, sometimes using more low speed compression damping(ajuster underneeth the compression leg) or using a slightly heavier compression oil can make it feel plusher, so don't be put off by 10wt, the boxxer orifices are huge and you have to use pretty heavy oils to make any difference, and even with all of this it will still feel "fast" and the rebound will not feel like it's working, however its "just enough" to keep from bucking you, so it will feel fast but that is the way boxxers work, and you can't really slow it down like you can a marzocchi, so don't go on an endless tuning serch, because it doesn't have a big tuning range and ajustments don't make a HUGE difference like they do in other forks.

Anyway, hope this helps, you want to switch out the oil about every month, like if you are riding a few times a week, because it gets comtaminated easily and quickly, doing this will extend the seal life and ensure good preformance.
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Postby atom » Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:50 am

as for the oil. how should i go about putting it in the legs? obviously i have to open to top caps.. but i mean, at what levels do i have to get the oil to and do i have compress the shock to get the oil to fill?
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glad this topic came up again.

Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:15 am

Here is what I did to my '01 Boxxer

you are a tad lighter than I am...I'm in the 150's but setup should be similar. If you want to keep your Boxxer smooth, Just make sure you keep the dust seals clean and you should be fine. But I do recommend changing the oil at least every 6 months depending on how much you ride. Here is how mine is set up...

- I use one soft (grey) spring and one Med (Yellow). This might work for you as well, if it's too stiff, try 2 silver springs. I don't use any preload spacers.
- For oil, I use RockOil (http://www.rockoilusa.com). You should measure the amount in volume, 200cc in each leg. 20wt in the Rebound and 10wt in the Compression. just make sure that you cycle each upper tubes in order to completely drain the old oil.
- here is a BlackBox trick. Take the stock compression check valve out and drill 8 5/64" holes. That is 2 new holes between each of the 4 holes. Here is a pic of mine (After/Before)
Image
it smoothes out the compression stroke. One tip on drilling the holes is to do it from the bottom, as it is easier to judge where to put them. Just match the drill size to the other holes.
- By drilling the extra holes you will increase the low-speed compression damping & rebound damping because you can use 10wt oil without spiking, & the higher oil levels will resist bottoming. I recommend leaving the high speed adjustment where it is.
- Another thing you can do to smothen your fork it take a scotch bright pad...soak it in 10wt oil and polish your stanchions with it...makes them super smooth.
- Again, when installing the new blood make sure you cycle the upper tubed 20-30 times in order to get the oil to fill the valves.
- Install the springs. Completely top out the fork! let it sit for while then install the top caps.
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Postby atom » Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:19 am

ok i understand everything except for "cycling". what exactly do you mean by that? like compressing and decompressing the fork?
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Postby atom » Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:23 am

also, what are the stock springs in the boxxer? i believe that the springs that came with mine are stock.

does anyone have like a .pdf file w/ the boxxer manual or some sort of pic with a schematic? that would help! thanks.
Last edited by atom on Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:23 am

atom wrote:ok i understand everything except for "cycling". what exactly do you mean by that? like compressing and decompressing the fork?


yeah, just like you do when you test the fork out once it's build...this will get all the oil out (when you empty it) or oil in (when you refill) in the rebound/compression assembly. Go to the Rock Shox web site and download the Boxxer Service Manual, it's extemely helpful and had many pics that will guide you through the steps.
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:25 am

atom wrote:also, what are the stock springs in the boxxer? i believe that the springs that came with mine are stock.


stock in the '01 and '02 Boxxers: 2 Yellow
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Postby atom » Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:56 am

ok.. so my last question! where can i get springs for the boxxer?
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:59 am

I had my bike shop order some for me. You can also call RS at 1.800.677.7177 and ask them.
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Postby Fool » Mon Sep 09, 2002 10:47 am

Atom -- you decide on a frame?
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Postby JamesNoBrakes » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:18 pm

Here is what I did to my '01 Boxxer

Acadian, how many miles have you put on your boxxer with this "mod"??

I am concerned that this is more of a "psychological" improvement, rather than an actual one.

you are a tad lighter than I am...I'm in the 150's but setup should be similar. If you want to keep your Boxxer smooth, Just make sure you keep the dust seals clean and you should be fine. But I do recommend changing the oil at least every 6 months depending on how much you ride. Here is how mine is set up...

Common, say it with me Acadian; OIL SHOULD BE CHANGED AFTER 40 HOURS OF RIDING

Thats not 6 months, and that is IN the manual as I remember it(got it on my computer anyhow).
Last edited by JamesNoBrakes on Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:24 pm

JamesNoBrakes wrote:Here is what I did to my '01 Boxxer

Acadian, how many miles have you put on your boxxer with this "mod"??

I am concerned that this is more of a "psychological" improvement, rather than an actual one.


I haven't really tested it as I got injured as I was making this mod. I just rode the bike around lately and the stroke feels a lot more smoother. I've also heard from others that have made this mod that it indeed improoves the fork. TF does this for a reason...when you send your fork to them they do this exact same mod.

Why do you think this is a "psychological" improvement?
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Postby JamesNoBrakes » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:29 pm

Psychological imporovments are where someone tells you something will make your fork or bike feel better, and since you "think" that it will, your mind will think that somehow it feels better, when it does not. The mind is a powerfull thing and fairly easy to influence. Take fork "tuning" for example, where techs at a shop just set up a fork according to the setup charts and weight, but when people get them back they think its 100x better, that may be an overstatement but sometimes the differences are not nearly as big as they think they are, and the setup is something they could have easily accomplished on their own, but they think its getting something magical done to it at the shop, and when they get it they thing it feels that much more special.
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:32 pm

JamesNoBrakes wrote:Psychological imporovments are where someone tells you something will make your fork or bike feel better, and since you "think" that it will, your mind will think that somehow it feels better, when it does not. The mind is a powerfull thing and fairly easy to influence. Take fork "tuning" for example, where techs at a shop just set up a fork according to the setup charts and weight, but when people get them back they think its 100x better, that may be an overstatement but sometimes the differences are not nearly as big as they think they are, and the setup is something they could have easily accomplished on their own, but they think its getting something magical done to it at the shop, and when they get it they thing it feels that much more special.


yeah okay :roll: ....but you didn't tell me why you doubt this mod will improve the fork's performance! I tell you...my fork feels much better since doing all this. But hey...whatever floats your boat...if you don't want to use this mod, but any means don't!
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Postby JamesNoBrakes » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:32 pm

WHOOPS!
<----------mmm, look at that pretty boxxer

Oil should be changed every 25 hrs, or monthly, thats the exact info from the manual.
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:34 pm

JamesNoBrakes wrote:WHOOPS!
<----------mmm, look at that pretty boxxer

Oil should be changed every 25 hrs, or monthly, thats the exact info from the manual.


yeah...that is why I said:
"AT LEAST every 6 months DEPENDING on how much you ride"
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Postby JamesNoBrakes » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:37 pm

yeah okay ....but you didn't tell me why you doubt this mod will improve the fork's performance!

because compression is virtually unrestricted in a stock boxxer, you can put like 15-20 weight oil in the compression and its still way fast, that was my experiance with it, i had to do that as well to keep it from bottoming, it didn't make it harsher though, usually when ive ajusted the compression in a boxxer it doesn't make it harsher, like it does in other forks, but a problem with the stock compression? I know the "problem" was with the rebound.

Anyway, I didn't say it didn't work, just that I was concerned about people doing it almost blindly it seemed, has anyone taken apart their 2003 yet to see what kind of compression setup its running? it would be intersting.
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:51 pm

JamesNoBrakes wrote:yeah okay ....but you didn't tell me why you doubt this mod will improve the fork's performance!

because compression is virtually unrestricted in a stock boxxer, you can put like 15-20 weight oil in the compression and its still way fast, that was my experiance with it, i had to do that as well to keep it from bottoming, it didn't make it harsher though, usually when ive ajusted the compression in a boxxer it doesn't make it harsher, like it does in other forks, but a problem with the stock compression? I know the "problem" was with the rebound.

Anyway, I didn't say it didn't work, just that I was concerned about people doing it almost blindly it seemed, has anyone taken apart their 2003 yet to see what kind of compression setup its running? it would be intersting.


I ran my fork stock for a while before attempting this mod. Like I said, you don't feel it's a good mod to make, then just don't do it. Atom asked about Boxxer mods, I decided to give them to him...I'm not forcing him to do them.

seems you like to bust my chops (on RM and now here)...dunno why tho?
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Postby Squasher » Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:00 pm

I made the mod and put about 3 hrs of riding on mine.
Here is what I noticed.
Before the mod I felt as though the first 3 inches were rather soft then the last 4 got progressively harder. Im not sure if this is the right term, but it felt like it was spiking out really bad.
After the Mod, on real fast rocky terrain, it soaked the bumps sooooo much better. With the extra holes, it allows the fork to compress quicker and soak the bumps. I think the mod was well worth it and not just a "psychological" improvement.
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Postby JamesNoBrakes » Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:01 pm

I ran my fork stock for a while before attempting this mod. Like I said, you don't feel it's a good mod to make, then just don't do it. Atom asked about Boxxer mods, I decided to give them to him...I'm not forcing him to do them.

seems you like to bust my chops (on RM and now here)...dunno why tho?


Didn't know you felt that way. Didn't know I was doing that. You seemed to be a big boxxer proponent ONCE you got one, and maybe I was trying to balance it out? I dunno, however changing it "at least every 6 months" is a good way to blow the seals out fast and damage the fork over time, twice a year is way too little for the boxxer, its not a marzocchi or stratos, and when you take the oil out after a few weeks its dirty, unlike those other two above, seriously it should be at LEAST every month, if he wants to get a good usefull life out of it and have it preform well.

So boxxer owners usually find the nearest motoX store so they can buy oil in bulk :)

Cause I did.
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:04 pm

Squasher wrote:I made the mod and put about 3 hrs of riding on mine.
Here is what I noticed.
Before the mod I felt as though the first 3 inches were rather soft then the last 4 got progressively harder. Im not sure if this is the right term, but it felt like it was spiking out really bad.
After the Mod, on real fast rocky terrain, it soaked the bumps sooooo much better. With the extra holes, it allows the fork to compress quicker and soak the bumps. I think the mod was well worth it and not just a "psychological" improvement.
My .2$


ditto...that is what I was told it would do. By drilling the extra holes it increases the low-speed compression damping & rebound damping because you can use 10wt oil without spiking, & the higher oil levels will resist bottoming and smoothes out the compression stroke. And I was also told to sinply leave the high speed adjustment where it is (stock)
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Postby Acadian » Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:06 pm

JamesNoBrakes wrote:however changing it "at least every 6 months" is a good way to blow the seals out fast and damage the fork over time, twice a year is way too little for the boxxer.


what if you only ride 5 hours a month? :roll:
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Postby JamesNoBrakes » Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:21 pm

the internals are still oxidizing and the oil is still getting contaminated, MOST maintanance like whats listed in the boxxer manual refers to what is "most restrictive" so if you only ride 5hrs a month, change it every month, if you ride 25hrs in two weeks, change it in two weeks.

In a perfect world they would have all anno-internals like a stratos, and they'd have a nearly fool-proof seal system like a marzocchi.

Now, if you only ride it for 5 months it would be pretty rediculous to change the oil every month, and the RS manual IS kind of rediculous in that almost no other fork recommends oil changes monthly, but who rides their bike for only 5hrs a month? Jeeze, uhh if you have a fork that has been sitting for many months, sure its a good thing to put some fresh oil in there, if you only use it for 5hrs a month then maybe every two months for you? In any event do the required maint, its worth it in the long run.
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